Initial reaction to Vrabel, Cassel deal
Written by Andy Hart on February 28, 2009 – 3:06 pm -As the trade of Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel to Kansas City just became official, I’m trying to bring you guys my gut reaction to the move. Honestly, I’m a bit torn.
First, I have to be honest with myself and say I’m a little surprised at the package in return including “just” a second-round pick. I said all along I thought you had to go for a first rounder, but apparently the market for Cassel didn’t warrent such a return on investment. That may have been heightened by the fact that teams like Minnesota, Chicago and San Francisco seemingly pulled out of the bidding pretty early on.
But getting the No. 34 pick in the draft should make the Patriots a major player on draft weekend. New England now has its first (No. 23), three seconds and a third. Bill Belichick could also very well end up with another third through the compensatory process for the departure of Asante Samuel. Six picks in the first three rounds for Belichick certainly sounds like a good way to infuse some talented youth into the team, no? Combine that with the fact that the team’s biggest needs — cornerback, edge rusher and wide receiver — are some of the deepest in the draft, and Belichick has a great chance to fill holes and rebuild on the run.
So while I’m a little down that New England didn’t get another first and sad to see Mike Vrabel go, in the end I’m really impressed with the deal. In one fell swoop Belichick and Co. cleared some $17 million in cap room to use in free agency, got what could be a very valuable (very high) second-round pick and made the next two months of free agency and draft preparation all that much more interesting.
Sure there are questions. Who’s going to fill Vrabel’s large shoes? (Let’s not forget he’s a year removed from an All-Pro season, even if he did have a terrible 2008 campaign.) What happens in the outside chance that Tom Brady isn’t at full healthy? (Maybe a veteran signing?) Is the defense better with a bunch of young starters than it was with a veteran captain like Vrabel?
And the biggest question of all, are the Patriots done with big moves here in the early days of free agency? That Julius Peppers name seems to keep popping up. I don’t have any information to lead me to think that’s more than rumors at this point. But there sure is a lot of smoke coming from that rumor.
Anyway, just minutes after what is a very big trade with seemingly many factors involved, those are my initial reactions. Wow!
More later as I digest things a bit.
Posted in Free Agency (2009) |
February 28th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
Andy/Erik,
I guess the market didn’t warrent a 1st rounder for Cassel. That being said to trade both Vrabel and Cassel for a 2nd? Hmmm seems like Pioli got the better part of the deal. I figured at least a 3rd or a 4th for Vrabel? No?
February 28th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
thanks andy i needed someone to talk about this deal i still think after reading i would have liked a 3 or 4 round pick aswell.i no mike was getting on in age but still there is no need to throw him into the deal to sweetin it for the chiefs like but that could just be thee fact my friend is a chiefs fan and is quite happy about the deal
February 28th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
wizard of oz …pioli was the brains behind the curtain …not happy!!!
February 28th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
If it was just a 2nd for cassel i would have been ok with it… but to “sweeten” the deal as some are calling it with Vrable is stupid. Thats just saying that cassel was not worth a second round pick on his own…
February 28th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
We got less than philly got for AJ FREAKING Feely ……?
February 28th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
I’m surprised that the official line is just a 2nd, I was hearing 2nd and conditional picks next year. However, Patriot fans over-rated Cassel’s trade value, I never really thought a 1st was an option. At the beginning of the season, there was talk of Cassel being cut after a poor show in the preseason games. At the end of the year we get a very high 2nd round pick for him and an aging linebacker. The team’s still in great shape without him in my opinion.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
I don’t like it. At all.
Unless that 2nd rounder becomes a 2010 1st or is giving to the Panthers for Peppers, in fact I hate it.
Matt Schaub was worth TWO Seconds yet Cassel AND Vrabel are worth one.
BS and we’ve been screwed.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Great analysis Andy! You sum up my thoughts on the subject. In so many ways this is such a perfect trade- each party got something valuable out of this transaction.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
What a terrible deal!!! To give up Vrabel & Cassel for only a second rounder…awful!!! Add to the fact that the Pats do some of their worst draft work in the 2nd round and this is looking even worse.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
I think this deal stinks. A high second round pick for Cassel alone, fine. But with Vrabel in the mix? This has to be purely a cap space move. But there’s not exactly a ton of talent out there in free agency right now; in my estimation, the “best” available are middling, aging players. Of course, there’s the Ray Lewis’s, TJ’s, etc — but a second round pick? I love my Pats — but I HATE the way they approach the draft. Sure they get “value” type players that end up being good in their system (see Samuel, Assante; Branch, Deion, etc). Sh*t, BB. I’m seriously doubting if you didn’t just send a sweethart deal to your old chum Scott.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
Cassel & Vrabel for only a second rounder! What a steel by KC!
Atlanta got TWO 2nd rounders for Matt Schaub alone. Have to say, I am really skeptical of this trade so far!
February 28th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
What about Marvin Harrison.
February 28th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
How did we trade 2 big stars and only get 1 2nd round draft pick that was a dumb trade we should have got something or somebody else in that trade 2 good stars a future pro bowler and a already proven star in mike vrable the only thing that made since was that we cleared space but did we need space that bad
February 28th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
What a terrible deal!!! Vrabel & Cassel for a 2nd round pick? No defendig this one and when you consider the Pats do their worst draft work in the second round, there is no good news…
February 28th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
We got hosed. Holy cow both vrabel and cassle for just 1 second round pick. Falcons got two 2nd rounders for Schaub while he’s not in the same league as cassel.
Belichick blew this one.
February 28th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
I wouldn’t mind getting the 2nd for Matt but the thing that makes me fell kinda screwed is that we gave up Vrable too. But 4 picks in the 1st 2 rounds is wonderful, now I just hope Bill doesn’t trade them away.
February 28th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
I think it’s stupid that they traded Vrabel. I think it was a good choice to get rid of Cassel, but why one of the patriots that helped win that first super bowl? I think there will be a big hole in the defense for this year even though we have Mayo, Brushci, Thomas, and many more good linebackers.
February 28th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Wow!!! Does anyone else think we just got robbed???
February 28th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Pipe dream scenario I would’ve liked:
Lions send #1 overall to San Fran, San Fran send #10 overall and 3rd round pick to Lions. Pats send Cassel and late round (say, 5th) to Lions and Lions send #10 overall. Why aren’t the Pats more aggressive in drafting? No wonder the team has gotten so old (and slow). AHHH!
February 28th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
The shock is starting to wear off-
I guess it’s a fair deal for both teams- Cassel could be great, or not.
Vrabel might have a lot left in the tank, or not. Good luck to those guys, except when they play the Pats! As for the Pats, lets just hope they get a Mayo not a Maroney w/ the 34th overall pick.
(I thought it would be the 35th, guess not)
February 28th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
The Pats got robbed. On ESPN they were saying that a first wasnt even a guarantee to get cassel. Floyd Reese (at espn before he was a PAT) said that theyd need a high first, and a third and probably another pick just to get a shot. im disapointed with the trade, as sole second rounder isnt even close to what they should have gotten. well see who b.b. gets in the draft
February 28th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
I want to see the pats sign Angelo Crowell, Leigh Bodden and maybe Chris Canty now that they have the Cap Room. . . and maybe trade ty warren or Seymore, or Jarvis Green to the panthers with the pats second rounder for JULIO Peppers
February 28th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Wow-I really hate to see Mike go but he is getting older and slower. Looks like I need to order a new jersey. I am dissappointed like Andy that we didnt seem to get much back in return in this deal. I was hoping for better just trading Cassel and we threw Vrabel in as well? I guess they ussually know what they are doing.
February 28th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Wow .. a second round pick for 2 key members of the pats .. i thought a first was in the bag .. Poo
February 28th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
My initial reaction was outrage and unbelief, but your comment about freeing up cap space calmed me down. I just don’t get it - two pros for the price of one unproved potential pro (draft pick #34)? Not only that, but KC will still get the #3 ovarall pick! Their fans have got to be elated. My only guess is that the Pats said - lets put a high price on Matt and see who bites, but Pioli called their bluff. I just hope the Pats get someone good to replace Mike and add a quality player at S,CB & ILB (either through the draft or free agency).
February 28th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
the most dissapointing part of all of this is perillo was right…..god help us!!!
February 28th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
I am shocked. I mean a 2nd round pick. That’s it??? For both of them? I don’t even know how to digest this.
February 28th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
I was shocked Vrabel was traded I thought he some fuel left in tank. Its always tough to say bye to the players that brought the team glory(Law, Milloy, and now Vrabel), but the Patriots need to get younger. They have the picks and cap room to be even better with the return of Brady. In Bill we trust.
February 28th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Really??? We traded Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel for only a 2nd round pick. Most of Patriots Nation thought we’d atleast get a first round pick for Cassel or a 2nd round pick and a player. Now we wound up giving away two players for only a 2nd round pick. Granted if the demand isn’t their to get something more it makes since we didn’t get more. Does anyone think that the departure of Vrabel maybe means something more toward the Peppers situation or is it more cap related and his fall off in the last year? Also does anyone believe the Cassel trade was only going to happen if Vrabel was part of it? Really only a second round pick????
February 28th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Not surprised to see Cassel traded, but Cassel and Vrabel for 34th overall? Hard to believe we could not have gotten at least a third round pick in addition to the high second. What does Bill know that we don’t? Or is SI’s Don Banks correct when suggesting BB “has suddenly gone soft”?
February 28th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Supposedly, Vrabel would have been cut anyways, so I’m happy with this trade.
February 28th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Only a 2nd round pick, that sucks!! BB - 0 Pioli - 1.
February 28th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Cassel AND Vrabel for ONLY a 2nd?!!! What is wrong with Belichik??? I’ve always stood by him. But enough is enough. He should just stick to coaching because he has lost it the last few years.
They should have just given Cassel for a 2nd, no need to give Vrabel in the deal with nothing in return. That is BS. So they save 3.3 million…or somewhere along those lines for Vrabel…big deal. Now you have replace him. And we all better hope no one goes after Brady’s knee and don’t think they won’t be gunning for him(they need another backup). Plus you need a third and fourth receiver(Gaffney’s gone). A long snapper(Paxton’s gone). About 4 corners(and please stay away from guys like Deltha O’Neil). And inside another linebacker (Bruschi’s done after this year probably and Seau’s way to slow) and now and outside linebacker. And probably another Safety(if Harrison doesn’t come back).
I mean they should have gotten a first rounder for Vrabel and Cassel. Unbelievable!
February 28th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
Fans are just upset that we lost a huge piece of the defense and ofcourse cassel. In reality we gained nearly 20 million in cap room and moved an aging linebacker past his prime. Even though a second round pick may seem very little in compensation, we can draft a quality player at a reasonable salary. The Pats hate drafting high and giving huge contracts to unproven players. If we can trade our picks to get Peppers then the deal was worth it, otherwise we better get a few good free agents with our cap room to prove we didnt lose a good quarterback and defensive captain for nothing
February 28th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
I think the Cassel/Vrabel (= two All-Pro caliber players) trade for a SECOND ROUND draft choice is just short of INSANE! What the heck are the Pats doing?
I can’t believe the Pats front office is of sound mind any more. Two of OUR BEST PLAYERS for a 34th pick?
Well, we still have the Celtics, unless they trade Pierce and Rondo for Sebastian Telfair… SHAME ON THE PATS FOR THIS TRAVESTY!
February 28th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Anyone slightly worried about how much talent the Jets are loading up with by picking up Lito Sheppard, Bart Scott, and possibly Ivy from the Ravens? I mean they already overhauled their defense last year with Kris Jenkins, Dansby, and I think another defensive player. They are looking by far more threatening then what New Englands defense looks?? Any thoughts???
February 28th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
I know i’m going to get bashed, but they should have traded Brady- go with Cassel - Pats could have had anything they wanted - nobodys sure he’s 100% anyways.Go with the sure bet.Cassel has a lot to prove - Brady not so much. I hope B.B. is right!
February 28th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
Pioli must have some pictures Bill doesn’t want to get out for the deal.
Cap Room, fair enough.
A 2nd for Cassel, fair enough.
Vrabel for nothing. I didn’t think he was great last year, but this is ridiculous and has cost me £50 in a bet as I thought we were guaranteed a pick between 1-35 for Matt alone, but Vrabel being there brings down the value.
Man, we got ripped.
February 28th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Hey Vrabel was done- he needs surgery and is in the last years of a career and last year was pathetic.Thankfully-we got the best from him while he was here ! Patriots are now going with youth on D…Love Taylor in the backfield now-he will open up the passing attack…
February 28th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
UNFREAKIN BELIEVABLE! BILL MUST HAVE SOMETHING UP HIS SLEEVE.
February 28th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Shoot me now!!!
February 28th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Awful deal!
Why not throw in Richard Seymour and Randy Moss for another 2nd rounder?
Two All-Pro caliber veterans for a 34th pick?
The Pats’ front office has a lot of explaining to do…
February 28th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
At first I was shocked, but if you look at it from a rational point of view that Patriots were negotiating from a position of weakness compared to other previous trades for players like Schaub and Roy Williams.
Cassel was on the books for $14m and the Pats were tight to the cap. Cassel was playing on a team that had gone 16-0 the season before and he went 11-5 against a weaker schedule, there are doubts about him performing with lesser talent. Vrabel is 34 coming off a poor season it seemed he could never beat his man on the edge, I love Vrabel but Belichick has no room for sentimentality as Pats fans know.
Ultimately the Pats got a good pick for a player they picked in the 7th round and who they could’ve lost for nothing. Ultimately I thick the $14m franchise tag put the Pats in a position of weakness and they got the best they could.
February 28th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
Bottom line is that we should have gotten at least a 2nd and 3rd or 4th round pick for Vrabel and Cassel.
That being said BB knows a lot more about their situation than any of us do. There is good depth in the draft for WR, pass rushers and a few other team needs that will make us younger and faster. Also consider all the pats big name players that will hit the free agent board next year that we need the cap space to address such as Wilfork, Semour and half the offensive line to name a few.
I think if it was this deal or hang on to Vrabel and Cassel and the 17 mil in cap space, the pats made the right move.
February 28th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
This is a reasonable deal when you think about it. Cassel isn’t worth a first round pick. He benefitted from having great players around him. Vrabel would be lucky to make the team next year. The Pats are sending him to a team he has a chance to land on the roster. The Pats don’t want to overpay a top ten draft pick, when they have established players waiting for an extension(Wilfolk, Mankins, Neal…) And I believe Cassel was the master of his fate. He probably didn’t want to go to Det, Chi or Min.
February 28th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
I was really angry when I heard that we gave up TWO players for a 2nd round pick. If the Pats would have gotten tony gonzalez and a 2nd round pick it would have made sense but I hope the pats know what there doing come draft day.
February 28th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
Chiefs Fans input of trade.
When I heard first reports of Cassel trade I was scared that it would be #3. I’m OK with the trade as it is. Cassel probable performed well enough to warrant a 1st rnd pick, if he resign long term deal. We only have him locked up for 1 year @ 14M. With this years draft depth and crazy rookie contracts #34 might be a better pick then #3. Vrabel would of been cut if no one took the bait. This trade seems fair. I can see how you guys might be disappointed after previous BB/Pioli trades.
February 28th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
I am just glad that none of these comenters are the Head coach of the team I have been a true fan of for over 40 years. If you don’t like what Bill does as the head coach PLEASE find a new team!!!
February 28th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
You can’t compare the Matt Schaub trade with this one. Schaub was not an unrestricted free agent like Cassel. The Falcons were not on the hook for 14.6 million GUARANTEED. They traded Schaub on their own terms without a deadline.
February 28th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
Bob in England spoke the truth ! Franchising Cassell weakened our bargaining leverage and we did VERY WELL to get a 2nd rounder so in all reality- let’s not be too greedy here…Patriots will be better in the long-run from this !…
February 28th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
How many linebackers have caught 10 passes all for tochdowns. were not just losing a good line backer but a plaeyr who helped the pats win there first superbowl. Plus Matt cassel (who was a 7th round pick and led the pats to a 11-5 record).
February 28th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
Just remember this.
Bill has forgotten 10,000 times the amount of football knowledge than any of us will EVER know!!
February 28th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Let’s see what Carolina gets for Peppers…a much more established player….and who won’t be a back-up going into the next year.
February 28th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
There has got to be more to this. You gave up two starters from last year for a number two?? You don’t suppose that KC has agreed to pick a player the Pats want with the 3rd pick and send him to NE do you? There has got to br more. Varbel’s salary was not that high. I’m not buying what the talking heads are saying. BB has got something else up his sleeve. He plays to win not to be a nice guy….
February 28th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Will all of you quit worrying? I’m pretty sure Bill & the gang have some more things in the works. Why not be patient and lets see how things work out between now and the draft?
Personally, I didn’t like to see Mike traded. It would have been nice to see him retire a Patriot, but you know he’ll be put in Patriot Hall when his playing days are over.
I have faith in my Patriots. There’s more on the way
February 28th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
I wasn’t a big fan of this deal when I first heard it, but the more that I’m thinking about it, the more it makes sense. I’m no expert on the NFL, but the way that I understand it is that the cap hit that a team takes for a player that they drafted is a direct result of how early the pick was. There’s probably a decent difference between a late first round and an early second round.
Also, you don’t need to know a ton about football to know that it’s hard to negotiate when everyone knows that you have to deal. Everyone knew that the Pats couldn’t tie up that much cap room on two QBs.
I hate to see Vrabel go, and I liked Cassel, too; but at least they’re not going to the Jets.
February 28th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Listen. I have always had the upmost faith in the Pats player development, scouting and coaching ever since the team would set MORE records the MORE hurt they got, and the MORE they had to keep plugging in CB’s from sitting on the couch, the more great players and coaches that would leave, etc.etc. But now I’m worried that all the praises I heard about Scott Peoli were warranted. He either fleeced us, got some sort of “charitable gift” for his services rendered as a Pat Man, or worse yet, it’s a sign of the times. HE was THE brains behind IT ALL. Bit I’m pretty sure that’s not the case. I hope. I’m pretty sure coach BB, Ray and Tom reunited is going to be AWESOME again! And Fred Taylor is a HORSE, and if he still is in NE, that’s cool. For all they have done, we still have to have faith in the system, till it fails. Then we’ll just bitch!
February 28th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Nuts and Bolts.. Nuts and Bolts.. We got Screwed!
March 1st, 2009 at 11:34 am
My question is this, if Scott Pioli was still in NE does this deal or one similiar happen. It seems the Pats should have gotten more. Or maybe its this, BB is setting up KC in case he needs to leave. I dunno it just smells fishy.
March 1st, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Guys, easy. Right now, Scott Pioli is looking in a mirror and wondering how Bill got the better of him again. Like Willie Mac, Vrabel is on the downside of his career, and we got something for Cassel, which a year ago would have been impossible. I think he’s clearing up cap space for Peppers. Imagine a healthy AT on one side and Peppers on the other.
March 1st, 2009 at 3:21 pm
I’m a Chiefs fan, and I must say I was more looking forward to Tyler Thigpen starting next season. He would have been our first home grown starter since, I guess Todd Blackledge. Oh well, I just hope Cassel is’nt a bust.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:37 pm
this deal sort-of smells more on the way, such as a ray lewis or julius peppers using KC and NE property to send to which ever former team we bargain with. BB doesn’t do things for no reason, although we did clear much cap room, i still see a figure in this hazey situation
March 3rd, 2009 at 3:26 pm
This is just outrageous to me! The way Matt played QB for us all season any other year would have ended up with us in the playoffs and Mike has been a great player for us for 8 yrs. even though he is getting older. I ‘m just sick that all we got for BOTH OF THEM is a SECOND ROUNDER??!! HUH??!!
March 3rd, 2009 at 10:38 pm
hind-sight is 20 20 and Pioli and his gang are way back in the rear view on this one !…Much rather pay 2nd round money than have to shell out 1st round dough and look Bill is just warming up…lots of good stuff to come as free agency gets further down the road and then the draft…Fred taylor is a stud and he will tear it up !Can’t freakin wait !….
March 4th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
Classic example of killing two birds with one stone. I’m I the only one content with this trade? We opened up so much salary cap space and we didn’t loose Tom Brady or Randy Moss. In the grand scheme of things it’s not that big of a loss. We’ll find another LOLB to fill the shoes of Vrabel, and Cassel wouldn’t have started anyway. And not letting Cassel go and start is such a slap in the face and it’s not the patriot way anyhow. This is smart by both sides Bill P. knew that NE needed to open up some more space to sign draft picks. Had the deal not gone down Pats would have had less than 3 million cap space, that’s really not even enough to sign one first rounder, and that’s it and seeing we have multiple second round picks it’s worth it. Which would you rather have, a bench warmer who cost 14 million to warm benches along with a 33 year old linebacker, or the cap space to sign multiple picks throughout the 1-3 rounds? To me I’d much rather have the picks.. Let’s move forward, lets be younger, but not at the expense of our dogs on the defensive line or Welker, Moss, and Brady. Cassel was franchised which means he got $0 Bonus, so this trade cost the Patriots no penalties. With the Chiefs Cassel will either get a long term deal or keep the deal he has as one of the highest paid QB’s in the NFL right off the jump. It’s good for him to further his career and good for the patriots because now we have the availability to do more things like sign FA or picks. These are the type of moves Patriots and Bill Belichick do, you draft a guy in the late rounds and use him, coach him up and decide to let him go, or keep him. In this case it’s rare to see a multiple proven QB’s back to back in one franchise. But Patriots have had great QB’s through the years, Bledsoe, Brady, Cassel, I’ll even say Testaverde (Okay, maybe not Vinny) but you get the picture. With Kevin on the roster and Matt, I think we still have that depth at the QB position. Another thing is, it’s practically a first round pick, and maybe we just need that pick for leverage to trade down to gain someone they already have there eye on. I would love to see any of the South Carolina prospects on the team but most notably Jared Cook.
March 7th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
You guys have to stop comparing this to Schaub and other QBs traded.
Those guys were not on the books for almost 15 million bucks!
Cassel at reasonable money might have landed a first round pick, but Cassel at practically Brady money… not so much.